I'd like to introduce a new topic respectfully, with kudos to KMG for what you've done so far. A great source of our favorite topic, girls kissing passionately. But I'm sensing a troubling trend here. And that's the trend toward "sameness" of the scenes, whether it be this site or Sloppygirl (I'm a member of both). Here's my concern, and I'd welcome members providing their constructive thoughts:
I'm concerned with seeing scenes that are falling into formulaic. Same actions, same body positions, same beginnings, middles and ends to the scenes. With no sign of any story set-up at all, nothing to put the kissing into context, mostly silence between the girls as they kiss, there is a dreaded element being introduced into the scenes (as much as I love the topic of girl/girl kissing and as much as the girls are trying)....and this dreaded element is....boredom. I hate to say it, but when you focus any action (kissing, trib, shaking hands, flipping burgers) without any set-up (even a minor story line) it can become boring and formulaic. All the scenes seem the same--fade-in to kissing girls dressed, passionate physical action but no verbalizing (passionate whispering, sex-talk, whatever) and near complete silence between the girls, then moving from stand-up to sitting on each other to lying on each other, to kissing on necks, butts, maybe feet, maybe some oral sex, then back to sitting on each other, standing, then fade-out.....there's a concern for just plain boredom rearing its ugly head.
This can be solved very simply. It takes a few small changes to the KMG formula: 1. Change up the locations of the scenes
2. Give each scene some sort of story set-up--nothing major, maybe just a few minutes at the beginning and the end. Don't suddently drop us into two girls kissing. Give us some "motivation" for the girls, something that brought them together and give us an ending or even the potential for other actions. This doesn't have to elaborate with the gown obsession of GFF or large expenses like location shooting. Just something simple at beginning and end.
3. Encourage erotic sighs, subtle sex talk between the girls--something that provides a break to the awkward silence
4. Break free of the same physical positioning that the girls have been directed to do. Even just having them start on a couch making out, in a car, in bed--something different.
Again, I stress that I make these suggestions and express these concerns respectfully but hoping that the directors will so something to keep the scenes from becoming boringly formulaic. You have some great girls who do a terrific job, and the subject is incredible. A few adjustments can produce amazing results. It's definitely doable.
I do like the ideas of different backgrounds , like my house, but as for the story line, I know most people including myself just fast forward to the point.
-- Edited by lvcleavage on Wednesday 22nd of December 2010 06:54:52 PM
I'd like to introduce a new topic respectfully, with kudos to KMG for what you've done so far. A great source of our favorite topic, girls kissing passionately. But I'm sensing a troubling trend here. And that's the trend toward "sameness" of the scenes, whether it be this site or Sloppygirl (I'm a member of both). Here's my concern, and I'd welcome members providing their constructive thoughts:
I'm concerned with seeing scenes that are falling into formulaic. Same actions, same body positions, same beginnings, middles and ends to the scenes. With no sign of any story set-up at all, nothing to put the kissing into context, mostly silence between the girls as they kiss, there is a dreaded element being introduced into the scenes (as much as I love the topic of girl/girl kissing and as much as the girls are trying)....and this dreaded element is....boredom. I hate to say it, but when you focus any action (kissing, trib, shaking hands, flipping burgers) without any set-up (even a minor story line) it can become boring and formulaic. All the scenes seem the same--fade-in to kissing girls dressed, passionate physical action but no verbalizing (passionate whispering, sex-talk, whatever) and near complete silence between the girls, then moving from stand-up to sitting on each other to lying on each other, to kissing on necks, butts, maybe feet, maybe some oral sex, then back to sitting on each other, standing, then fade-out.....there's a concern for just plain boredom rearing its ugly head.
This can be solved very simply. It takes a few small changes to the KMG formula: 1. Change up the locations of the scenes
2. Give each scene some sort of story set-up--nothing major, maybe just a few minutes at the beginning and the end. Don't suddently drop us into two girls kissing. Give us some "motivation" for the girls, something that brought them together and give us an ending or even the potential for other actions. This doesn't have to elaborate with the gown obsession of GFF or large expenses like location shooting. Just something simple at beginning and end.
3. Encourage erotic sighs, subtle sex talk between the girls--something that provides a break to the awkward silence
4. Break free of the same physical positioning that the girls have been directed to do. Even just having them start on a couch making out, in a car, in bed--something different.
Again, I stress that I make these suggestions and express these concerns respectfully but hoping that the directors will so something to keep the scenes from becoming boringly formulaic. You have some great girls who do a terrific job, and the subject is incredible. A few adjustments can produce amazing results. It's definitely doable.
First, thanks for all the input! This topic has come up before and for the most part, most of our customers have told us they would rather not fool with girls doing dialog. I know there are some who enjoy it, I actually enjoy a scene with a well prepared storyline. However, it's not nearly as easy as most people seem to think. In order for dialog to work, there has to be enough of it to actually build the storyline, it takes more than just a couple of lines and you need girls that have some level of acting ability to pull it off. You would be amazed at how much time it takes to just add a small storyline to a scene, especially if you do it right. I should also mention that the girls normally hate it. Most of these girls realize that their not actors. You should know that companies that shoot dialog can keep talent on set for 12-16 hour days.
As for locations: We've used a wide variety of spots, including beds, couches, doorways, ottomans, floors, fireplaces, kitchens, bathrooms, laundry rooms, staircases, bay windows, outside spots as well. I've always felt locations are secondary, if the action between the girls is good, then the location is simply not important. Most of our shots are pretty tight shots so the location is not usually that noticable anyway. Many issues exist with locations, expense, and all kinds of legal issues. I do agree that we could find ways to add a little to the scene in other ways.
As for talking in the scenes, we tell the girls to talk if they want to and it's genuine, we tell them not to talk just for the sake of talking, there's nothing worst than hearing fake typical porno talk in a scene. We've found that when two girls are really into a scene, they're not very interested in talking. I think our scenes are full of genuine erotic sighs and facial expressions.
As for physical positioning, once again we pretty much let the girls find their own way and do what they enjoy. For example, Avy always finds a way to hump her partner. There are only so many positions, especially in a softcore scene, so it's impossible not to repeat them from scene to scene. I do agree we could start them in a way other than standing.
In closing, after shooting adult scenes for years it is easy to fall into a formula, but it's also impossible not to formulated to some extent. If we added storyline to our scenes, it would not take long to use all the good storylines and pretty soon it would also become boring and silly to many. I want to keep our emphasis on the girls and the chemistry, if that's good, then the rest is secondary.
KMG--thanks for taking the time to respond to my ideas and impressions, I appreciate it. On your points:
I understand that two minutes of story line that we see as consumers could be as a result of ten hours of work. So I'm not surprised that it could be difficult, even a little bit. And not all the girls are actresses, but re-actors, if you know what I mean. With that said, even two girls walking in and talking about their date, sitting on the couch and starting to make out could be something if anything. You're the technician, so you know what's feasible. Even without dialog, starting them on the couch or under the covers in bed--something different. It doesn't need to be all the time, but just as an occasional change of pace.
I also understand the challenges of location and getting things technically set to film. There was a scene in the laundry room you did a while back that was nice. But here again, just a change of pace occasionally would help keep back the formulaic wolves.
I agree on the phony porno-talk. Bad stuff. Some of the girls enjoy the intimate whispering or sighing, some don't. The girls will do what they're comfortable with, and it's good that you let them do what they feel at the time. I hope not many are into stoney silence. On positioning, whatever works at the time with the girls--we'll know when they start doing yoga positions and standing on their heads, it's gone too far. Natural is good.
Again, I appreciate your taking my input here, and even if a small element makes it into a scene, I will judge this time well spent. You're the pros, you're doing some great and different work here, I look forward to progress with the girls and the scenes.
I rather see two girls just go at it instead of some fake pretend lines they must say and when they pretend its just too obvious, so instead of using a fake dialogue to built the scene, its just flat.
"Fake pretend lines"? This is the movies....don't you go to the movies? If you like action movies, you don't like to go in, sit down and just watch scenes of people either smashing or shooting each other scene after scene, do you? Some story line makes for a better experience, even if it's just a few minutes, doesn't it? I'm not saying half an hour of lead-in. Just a few minutes that sets up the action--this is fantasy. Fantasy is a whole picture, I would think. But to each his or her own....
"Fake pretend lines"? This is the movies....don't you go to the movies? If you like action movies, you don't like to go in, sit down and just watch scenes of people either smashing or shooting each other scene after scene, do you? Some story line makes for a better experience, even if it's just a few minutes, doesn't it? I'm not saying half an hour of lead-in. Just a few minutes that sets up the action--this is fantasy. Fantasy is a whole picture, I would think. But to each his or her own....
Yes some story does make a movie better but how is this supposed to work for KMG, or more to the point, for porn? If you want fantasy, then buy Girlfriend Films but do people really buy those films for the dialogue or for the sex scenes? I myself haven't remember any of the story lines from any of the GF films but I do remember some of the lesbian action and I am sure others are in the same boat. So how dialogue supposed to work at KMG?
Sara doing laundry and Bobbi walking in.
Bobbi- what are you doing Sara? Sara- Washing my bra. Bobbi- That's a sexy bra. Sara- it looks better with me in it Bobbi-Try it on Sara They start kissing.
Yes the dialogue just made the scene so much better with its buildup. BTW these are porn "actress", let them do what they do best, its like asking Will Ferrell to do drama, that's why "Stranger Then Fiction" bomb so bad at the movies.
everyone has their thing but i watch porn to see the action. i dont really care about where they do it at as long as its not dark where i cant see whats going on and i have no need for some corny, forced, and awkward dialogue or storyline where two legal prostitutes attempt thespian stylings.
i say leave it alone. this is porn not hollywood and the two should never mix.
"...two legal prostitutes...."??? What's that all about?
I think there's a bit of an overreaction to my suggestion. I'm not suggesting "Gone With the Wind" or "McBeth" here. And, unlike GFF, no 15 minutes of girls in gowns or soap opera including commercials. Just a few minutes before and after with some kind of reason why the girls are kissing and the aftermath. Sex is sex. But there's so much more potential for increased heat with a little foreplay. Just a little.
pornography is legal prostitution. people performing sexual acts for money.
we know what you're talking about, at least i do. light dialogue and storyline have been implemented in KMG scenes in the past at it did nothing but give me an excuse to use the seek function on my media player.
im just trying to get a wank in watching hot chics have sex. everything else is a distraction.
in the same way, i dont like sex scenes in hollywood films. porn and hollywood should NEVER cross paths.
-- Edited by WD36 on Monday 27th of December 2010 10:56:17 PM
natural and unscripted is always the best, this is one reason i like KMG scenes. It's because its all real, and not faked. Keep it this way and don't fall into the typical adult porn stuff thats out there. KMG is really unique in this aspect.
I really liked the beginning of the Sammie/Lexie scene in the laundry room. I would like to see that type of dialogue. How long was that dialogue, about a minute?
Also the Nicole Ray/Alexis Texas scene had a very fun erotic beginning, as did the Lexie/Annabelle scene.
I think there a few things that can be added to the beginning of the scene once in awhile just to keep things a little fresh.
I wouldnt mind a brief story line to start things off with if it's genuine and adds a sense of build up to the scene.
An example would be 2 girls all dressed up coming home late at night from a club or bar, and then enter the apartment with the lights dim. One girl being extremely horny and start pinning one girl up against the wall and teasing the other girl with her long tongue slowly, getting the other girl extremely hot and worked up to the point where she gets so hot and they both take turns dominating one another, which then they both anxiously struggle to get into the bedroom where one girl pushes the other girl down on the bed and looks at her seductively while licking her lips like a snake and flicking it in and out with the other girl on the bed getting so horny and anticipating her every move. Then the other one gets on top and starts dominating the submissive girl to the point where the submissive girl gets so horny and flips the dominating girl around and takes the opposite role.
Great set-up, turbinez. Sounds like you put some detailed thought to this. I'd encourage KMG to take just a few minutes for lead-in. A lead-in gives the scene so much potential eroticism. Provides a story to the action. With all the movies all of us see--mainstream, girl/girl, etc--having some sort of story line always makes the key scene much more effective. Now I'm not talking about turning this into "Gone With The Wind", but just a few minutes of something.
A scene that starts with two girls naked and hops right into the action has to work harder to bring it to the highest level of eroticism. You sacrifice nothing by providing even just a few minutes of story, and if anything enhance the "experience".
-- Edited by MorSizzler on Tuesday 25th of January 2011 04:39:39 PM
Well, I hate to say it, but you may have to sock away some coin and spring for a custom or two. Closest you may come to being a director. At the least, you should start posting your ideas here and at Sweetheart Video and LezLove forums. Maybe one of them may pick up on it. Nica Noelle is pretty good at finding creative ideas via the consumer.
